(“The Gospel of Personal Relationship” – White Horse Inn Brodacst April 20, 2008)
Is a person saved by a personal relationship with Jesus? Not necessarily. Unbelievers have a personal relationship with Jesus, too. Their relationship is one of God’s curse which is upon them now and the wrath which is to come. The believer’s personal relationship is one of forgiveness and sanctification through belief in the truth, however.
Is one saved by faith? Not necessarily. The word “faith” itself just means belief. There are people who have believe (or have faith) in Muhammad. Are they saved by faith? No. One is only saved by the the object or person of one’s faith namely Jesus the Christ.
In this White Horse Inn episode, the panel discusses how this mentality of “a personal relationship with God” has infiltrated evangelicalism and how it’s not necessarily having a personal relationship that saves someone, but a personal relationship of forgiveness which does. The only way this is achieved is by faith in Christ alone; not faith in faith, not faith in Buddha, not faith in Oprah – it’s faith in Christ.
http://www.whitehorseinn.org
Duration : 0:10:31
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If Christ’s …
If Christ’s atonement covered all sins for all people for all time, why do people go to ? How could a just God rightfully punish someone if their sins are already accounted for?
Also, you make the ertion that temporary was the dominant Christian belief in the early centuries. Can you provide any primary source material that proves this is true?
God is a God of …
God is a God of perfect mercy and kindness. Jesus’ atonement covered all sins for all people for all time. I believe that, ultimately, all will reconciled to God through Christ. “Hell/Sheol/Hades/Gehenna, can’t and won’t hold the “condemned” forever, for they too will be emptied and destroyed, (see Revelation). Every knee will bow and serve God eternally, even if some have to spend time in “hell” before that happens. This was the dominant Christian belief in the early centuries.
The word “know” is …
The word “know” is also used in regards to predestination. It is a personal, intimate “knowing.” This, however, doesn’t disprove that unbelievers do not have a personal relationship with God. Consider this: one person cares about another but the other hates them. The latter bickers and fights with the former. They don’t get along hence they have a bad relationship yet is it not still a relationship albeit a bad one? The same applies here to God and those who are not justified by Him.
it makes perfect …
it makes perfect sense in your relationship to God in judgement.But I’m not gonna argue on the other side of an anology I make about to me a wrong doctrine in the first place-explain the scripture that says depart from me for I never knew you.How can Jesus say this to someone he has had a relationship with?Jesus and we evangelicals look at being saved receiving the holy ghost as God knowing us and we knowing him implying we have a relationship.I don’t have relationship with someone I dont know
Your analogy makes …
Your analogy makes no sense. If we’re talking about a secular judge, do you hold that the judge has to have a “personal relationship” with the person they acquit, too? If not, you’re inconsistent.
Saying a unsaved …
Saying a unsaved person has arelationship with God is saying that I am guilty of a crime and I have a personal relationship with the judge who is about to sentence me to death.Come on this is not a relationship period. don’t we have to become alive unto God?Matter of fact he says he will say to many that I never knew you.So that should end the arguement,Jesus says he aint never known some people.This new relationship to God wrath doctrine is not worthy of consideration.
sin seperates u …
sin seperates u from God that is biblical! it’s called repentance.
WOW!!!! i loved the …
WOW!!!! i loved the last part when they said…”you dont need Christ if you have God’s love to back u up”…..that’s like a punch in the face….this will be great for evangelism
“Restoration into …
“Restoration into what?” is the question. Will you answer that?
Of course not. I …
Of course not. I know what was being implied, but the same thing that was being implied wasn’t necessarily the truth of the matter. “Why be vague about it?” is what I ask. It’s really misleading for someone to say that only believers have a personal relationship when only believers have a right personal relationship with God. What kind of witness is that to unbelievers (or believers for that matter)? It’s dishonest. It’s not “hair splitting”; it’s making sure evangelism is done with integrity.
I don’t ume my …
I don’t ume my stance, my point is you are divorcing the term from the context it is used in. Are you seriously suggesting that God does not offer restoration and intimacy with him as a motivation for one to be saved. Didn’t peter preach on the day of pentecost for them to repent and be baptized so that they will recieve the Promise of the Spirit(God abiding in us through the third person of the trinity)
That is what i …
That is what i suspect, don’t know for sure but this hair splitting makes me suspicious. So when you first heard someone say something about having a personal relationship with God you immediately thought, “what are they talking about everyone has a personal relationship to God, either in wrath or in blessings”? You seriously think this is vague. The concept of intimacy doesn’t come to mind?
“Not just to save …
“Not just to save us butto restore our relationship with him that was lost during the fall.”
You’re half right. You missed one key word, though. You should have said, “Not just to save us butto restore our RIGHT relationship with him that was lost during the fall.” After the fall, Adam and Eve still had a personal relationship with God. Do you deny that?
These are two …
These are two different topics. Again, please stay on topic.
“You are barking up …
“You are barking up the wrong tree. Right relationship goes along with right worship. Anyone with an intimate relationship with God isn’t goona stop sharing the joy of this based on this made up personal relationship between unbeleivers and God.”
You’re making the point I’m making now aside from you uming your point at the end. I never said that a right relationship wasn’t necessary, I said that a personal relationship is what everyone has.
Point is we are …
Point is we are dead in our trespasses. What type of relationship does God have with dead people? This is so silly. My point is that these guys are making bogus distinctions. I don’t know of any evangelical church that doesn’t preach the cross. God has a purpose in saving us from our sins. Not just to save us butto restore our relationship with him that was lost during the fall.
This is said in …
This is said in love: Your feelings aren’t going to win unbelievers to Christ. They just aren’t. It might make people make professions, but people need something cognitive to stand on and your feelings or theirs don’t cut it because they are subjective and change.
Well, we’d say that …
Well, we’d say that you’re not winning anyone by telling them that only believers have a personal relationship with Christ when it’s obvious that everyone does in some form or fashion. You ume your stance basically (and you can correct me on this if I’m wrong because this is the only reason I’ve seen you provide in all these comments) because “it just feels right.”
I guess the gist of …
I guess the gist of what I’m saying to you and the people on this broadcast is that if you want evangelicals to focus on the cross then preach it. Your not winning anybody over by MAKING UP that unbelievers have a personal relationship with God. You are barking up the wrong tree. Right relationship goes along with right worship. Anyone with an intimate relationship with God isn’t goona stop sharing the joy of this based on this made up personal relationship between unbeleivers and God.
A person who is …
A person who is dead in their sin has a relationship with God, but it’s one of unbelief, condemnation, and the wrath that is to come. It’s the same as an abusive husband still has a personal relationship with his wife in many respects. Even though he hates her, he still has a personal relationship with her; it’s not a positive personal relationship, it’s a negative personal relationship; point being, it’s still a personal relationship.
Actually, I would …
Actually, I would say that you are the one divorcing the meaning of the word from it’s context. We’ve already addressed what the definition of “personal relationship” is, yet you’re the one who wants to define it only in the positive because, traditionally, that’s what you’re used to. (cont…)
well i disagree …
well i disagree with what the video is saying. a few guys getting together and divorcing the meaning of a word in the context that it is used in so as to render it useless in their own minds is nothing more than a vain and rather dishonest mental exercise. Saying people who are dead to God have a personal relationship with him is silly, but saying a person made alive to God has a personal relationship with God makes perfect sense.
“Saying unbelievers …
“Saying unbelievers have a personal relationship with god makes the term senseless and useless.”
Exactly. That’s the whole point of the video. It’s a senseless and useless term already because unbelievers DO have a personal relationship with God. All the WHI has done is merely explain this truth. You do get the gist of the videos.
Why are you …
Why are you changing the topic now? First you inquired about a “a judge that sentences a criminal to life in prison” now you’re asking about “a dead person”. Why the sudden change in topic? Let’s stick to the topic we’ve been discussing if we may.
Do you have a …
Do you have a personal relationship with a dead person?